"A Writer's Work Is Never Done"  Shaheen Interviewed in Toronto, 1990 by - Dr. Khalid Sohail

 

Sohail:         Shaheen!  Your involvement with Urdu literature has been quite extensive and one can talk to you about Urdu literature from many angles, but I will start with your most recent contribution to Urdu literature in the form of your magazine Urdu Canada. How were you inspired to take on such a big project?

 

Shaheen:      I was acutely aware that world literature has been translated into Urdu. We know something about German and French and other international literatures but the masterpieces of Urdu literature have not been translated into other world languages. I thought that since English has acquired the status of an International language, we should focus on that. Urdu literature needs a wider audience so it would be fortuitous to translate some of the best Urdu pieces into English; this way our literature can be truly appreciated abroad. My involvement with Urdu Canada grew from the conviction that the best parts of Urdu literature can be compared with many other literatures of the world. I thought some efforts should be made in that direction and since I live in a country where it is easy for me to do that, I started editing the magazine.

 

Sohail:         How long did you have the idea before it materialized?

 

Shaheen:      I started thinking about it when I first arrived in Canada in 1973 but you know the first few years are the most difficult when one has to find footing on an alien soil. Once I got settled and I could spare some time and money, and I gave the idea a practical shape.

 

Sohail:         I know editing and publishing a magazine is not an easy thing. It requires a lot of time and energy. Are there other people who help you in your efforts?

 

Shaheen:      Not really. To tell you the truth it is a one-man show. In the beginning I included some names hoping I would get some cooperation and assistance but that bred some confusion. People started thinking that I was getting some money from somewhere and those people were helping me get that money. So instead of assistance it created confusion. It has been a one-man show since its inception. My wife of course has been very supportive. The only problem I have now is that I don't have enough time. That is why the magazine is not published on a regular basis. Otherwise the response has been very good.

 

Sohail:         Do people send you their contributions in English or do you have to make special requests for their translations?

 

Shaheen:      It works both ways. Many articles like those of Shams-ur-Rehman Farooqi and Ali Sardar Jafri were originally written in English. Even interviews published in Urdu Canada were written in English. Later on many of those articles have been translated into Urdu for other magazines. Most of the translations of fiction and poetry come unsolicited from various people and then I select the ones I like. In some cases I suggest translations or give a topic of my interest and people respond to it.

 

Sohail:         Do you notice any difference between the translations of fiction and poetry that you receive from North America, compared to those you receive from India or Pakistan?

 

Shaheen:      A vast difference. When I receive translations from India or Pakistan I have to work on them. I will cite an example to highlight the difference. A prominent writer sent me a translation of an Urdu poem. In the verse "tere badan ki khushboo" he translated "khushboo" as odour rather than fragrance. I have to be careful because this magazine is published from North America and the language should conform to the usage here. That is one difference. The translations in India and Pakistan are based on bookish English and I don't blame them because they don't speak English the way we do here. So most of the time they translate it from their own perception of the language. The differences are quite significant. Sometimes it is reflected in the use of subtly different words. The words might mean the same but one is more appropriate than the other. For example the words yogurt and curd mean the same thing but for an American character, using the word curd doesn't work.

 

                   On the other hand, there are some very good translators in India and Pakistan who are very well aware of North American usage of language - even the slang. I think gradually our expertise in the field of translations is increasing.

 

Sohail:         When you edit these translations received from India and Pakistan, do the translators accept those changes gracefully or do they resent it?

 

Shaheen:      Most of the time they accept them gracefully. There was one exception. Qurut-ul-Ain Haider wrote me a letter. She was all praise for the magazine but she did comment that since the translator of her short story, although very well respected, was not from the same area she was from, he was not familiar with some of the terms in her story.

 

Sohail:         Was her story translated in North America or in India or Pakistan?

 

Shaheen:      It was translated in North America. The translation was very good but Qurut-ul-Ain picked out some finer details.

 

Sohail:         Do you find any differences in the translations of poetry compared to translations of prose or fiction?

 

Shaheen:      Mostly I find that people who translate poetry do a better job, especially the works I receive from India and Pakistan.

 

Sohail:         You have done some translations yourself?

 

Shaheen:      Yes. In the beginning I translated short stories and novels in India and many of them were published. One of them was a Polish story which I translated from English. It became very popular. Once it was published it was reproduced in many other magazines.

 

                   I also translated one long short story written by Budh Dev Boes, one of the best short story writers Bengali has produced. That story was published in "Seep" in their novelette number.

 

                   I did some translations of poetry as well.

 

Sohail:         You are talking about the translations you did from English into Urdu. I was referring to the translations you did from Urdu to English.

 

Shaheen:      Yes, I have translated some poems and articles from Urdu into English, including some of my own poetry.

 

Sohail:         How many issues of Urdu Canada have you published so far?

 

Shaheen:      Five issues. The sixth one is under preparation. I think within a year I will be able to publish the magazine more regularly.

 

Sohail:         Do you have enough contributions to bring out a magazine regularly?

 

Shaheen:      Well, there is no dearth of articles, poems and stories. I have received so many good works in literature that I want to publish a series of monographs. Some of the productions are so lengthy that they cannot be included in a magazine but will look impressive as monographs.

 

Sohail:         I know your magazine is distributed to many countries. Is there any particular part of the world that has shown more enthusiasm?

 

Shaheen:      India and Pakistan have shown the maximum interest. I think it is because there are more people there who speak the language and are interested in Urdu literature. There are quite a few people in Canada and America who subscribe to the magazine. I also hear from Norway, Australia, France, and the U.K. If I were ever to market the magazine in a serious way, it could be introduced to other countries as well. I receive more letters than I can respond to. I have nearly twenty inquiries in my briefcase now all asking me to send them an invoice. I don't have time to prepare invoices. It would have been easier if they had sent the cheque and I sent them the magazine.

 

Sohail:         Roughly how much time do you spend on the magazine?

 

Shaheen:      I would say nearly two days or sixteen hours a week. Most of the time is spent in reading the manuscripts.

 

Sohail:         That is quite a bit of time.

 

Shaheen:      Yes, it is. I want to reply to all the letters I receive but I can't do it. I receive nearly a hundred and fifty letters a month and I can hardly respond to fifty. That is a big drawback. That is one of the shortcomings.

 

Sohail:         Has your own creative writing been affected since you started editing a magazine?

 

Shaheen:      There are only twenty-four hours in a day. I wish there were forty-eight. My priorities have changed. I want to read a number of books that I cannot read because of time constraints. My own writing has suffered too. I set deadlines for myself in order to get things done, otherwise I wouldn't accomplish as much.

 

Sohail:         Do you think that the poetry you have produced in the last four years has been less than the poetry you wrote in the previous four years?

 

Shaheen:      Yes, it's been less. But I consider editing a magazine also a contribution to literature although of a different nature.

 

Sohail:         How has your involvement with literature affected your professional life?

 

Shaheen:      I treat them as two separate airtight compartments. I work as a policy adviser in the Rail Freight Programs division of Transport Canada. My work involves performing statistical and economic analysis and advising the department on policy issues concerning grain transportation and handling in Canada. I also draft a variety of Orders in Council which are published in the Canada Gazette.

 

                   Although sometimes my colleagues buy my books from book stores, I have kept a clear-cut demarcation between my work and my literary life. I hope neither one suffers. I don't allow my literary career to be an obstacle to my profession or the other way around. Of course if I had all the time for myself and didn't have to worry about putting bread and butter on the table for the family, I would produce more. That may not come to pass, but I think there would be more potential to create more.

 

Sohail:         So you have been spending sixteen hours a week on the magazine on top of the forty hours a week at your regular work.

 

Shaheen:      Yes, that's true. I work for the magazine during the evening or on the weekends.

 

Sohail:         You also have a family life. How does that affect your literary endeavour?

 

Shaheen:      I have four children who are grown up now. Everyone praises his or her own children. I usually say "Children are like ideas, your own are always wonderful". My wife and children are very supportive of whatever I do. They don't put too many demands of the domestic nature on me and they leave me alone. They understand my obligations. My wife is cooperative in every sense of the word. An ordinary wife would not like to see books everywhere in the house. She knows that I spend a lot of money on books. In spite of the fact that I get books from my friends I buy nearly thirty books a month. I think the biggest load we have to carry when moving from one house to another is that of my books. Usually people would be resentful but my family members aren't.

 

Sohail:         I have heard that you lead an active social and academic life. Are you a member of any organizations or are you just invited as a guest to their meetings.

 

Shaheen:      When I first came to Canada in 1973, I landed in Ottawa, and I have been living there ever since. It has been more than seventeen years now and that's the longest I have lived anywhere in the world. During the initial years of struggle I developed friendships with some people from Pakistan. I met some Urdu writers but there weren't very many of them who lived in Canada at that time and those who were here, were nonserious - nonserious in the sense that they would come to the meetings and recite some verses and that would be it. Their involvement would not go beyond those meetings. They were not serious students of literature the way I found myself to be.

 

                   In 1976 I met a gentleman who lived in Cornwall; he wanted to produce a collection of writings by Canadians of Asian origin. I sent him a few translations of my poems. He liked them and included them in his collection named `Green Snow'.

 

                   Later on I started volunteering my services to different organizations. Presently I am an executive secretary of the National Capital Alliance on Race Relations which works towards elimination of discrimination based on race, colour, creed and ethnicity. I have been associated with that for the last  four years. First I was the chairman of their cultural committee and arranged a number of programmes. One of them was a show in the National Arts Centre which included poetry from different countries. Now I am the secretary of that organization. I am also part of the Board of Directors of the Ottawa Carlton Immigrant Services Organization. These activities take a lot of time but these are good experiences and one gets a lot more out of them than one gives. One becomes aware of the discrimination and hatred around us. If one reads the Native poetry of Canada; one sees what they have to say and how they complain about mainstream literature because they feel that they are discriminated against at various levels. One realizes that the problem is not superficial.

 

Sohail:         How have your experiences in Canada changed your writings? How is your poetry different now than the poetry you wrote before you came to Canada?

 

Shaheen:      I think before I share with you the differences, I have to tell you about my background. My grandparents were quite well to do but what I saw as a child was poverty all around me. The village I grew up in was destroyed in the name of Pakistan even before Pakistan came into existence. My house was burnt down and my mother and brother were killed in 1946 because my village had voted in favour of Pakistan in the 1945 referendum. I was only five or six years old at that time and I have suffered a lot since then. My father lost his business and his interest in life and his family. After that what I saw was poverty, dejection, depression and a very pessimistic outlook on life. The very fact that we survived in spite of everything gave us a different perspective on life. I hardly had any sense of childhood or boyhood. I became a man at a very early age. Even in school I used to teach other students to make enough money to survive. When I saw the injustices all around me that made me a rebel.

 

                   My father was supportive of the idea that I should be a well educated person but when he was not able to support me financially he suggested that I should become a tailor or a "beeri" worker so that I could earn money right away. In his heart of hearts he wanted me to get a good education but he was helpless as he had lost everything and could not afford an education for me; therefore, I tutored others in order to support myself so that I could finish my education.

 

Sohail:         How big was your family?

 

Shaheen:      It wasn't a very big family:  my parents, three brothers and three sisters. After my mother and brother were killed, I was left with my father, two brothers and a younger sister at home. My older sisters had left home once she got married.

 

Sohail:         Do you remember your mother?

 

Shaheen:      Yes, I do. She was quite young at that time.

 

Sohail:         Were you close to her?

 

Shaheen:      I think I was, but my younger brother who was the baby of the family was closer to mother. Nevertheless, I loved her and she loved me.

 

Sohail:         What kind of relationship did you have with your father?

 

Shaheen:      Very good. He was a handsome man with a fair complexion. He was also very religious. He used to pray five times a day in the mosque and also used to say azan in place of moazzin. He was a very generous person when he had a good economic standing. He used to ask us to do things and find excuses to give us money. He was regarded as a sage in the village. His real name was Mir Navaid Ali but everybody called him `Mir Sahib' with respect.

 

Sohail:         How did he react to the death of his wife and son?

 

Shaheen:      Very badly. He was very calm on the surface but very disturbed underneath. It appeared as though he had been killed instead of my mother.

 

Sohail:         How did that incident affect you?

 

Shaheen:      I was in the first grade at that time. After our village was attacked by Hindus and houses were burnt, the place was no longer safe for us. My brother-in-law read the news in the newspaper and came to our village at that time. He offered to take me and my brother to his village which was about a day's journey from ours. My father agreed to that suggestion hoping that his children would be safer in another village.

 

Sohail:         Did your father stay back?

 

Shaheen:      Yes, he did. He had a vague hope of finding the bodies of my mother and my brother. During that time many dead bodies were burnt alive or thrown in wells. So we were taken to another village, on the other side of the Ganges. After about fifteen days even that village in Bihar was also attacked by Hindus and we had to leave, and move to an area where Muslims were in the majority and a Muslim nawab was in power.

 

Sohail:         So you had to live with your sister and her family.

 

Shaheen:      Yes. Chaudry Nazir-ul-Hasan, a well known worker of the Muslim League was the nawab of that area. He was well respected in Bihar. He built nearly two hundred temporary houses for homeless families. He provided them with food, shelter and other necessary things from his own resources. It was a wonderful gesture on his part. People lived there for three to four months and when the fear subsided people went back to their own villages.

 

                   One day during our stay there, my older brother, who was playing outside, met the nawab. The nawab inquired about the well-being of my brother. My brother told the nawab that he was in grade seven and his younger brother was in grade one.

 

                   The nawab asked him if he and his younger brother wanted to study there. He said "Yes". So he replied, "From today onwards you and your brother are my responsibility". He talked to my family and they all agreed. So the rest of my family went back but we two brothers stayed with the nawab who provided a room for us in his second mansion and arranged for our food and other necessities. We got admitted into the Islamic High School; I was enroled in grade two. We had to walk four to five kilometres to school and back every day.

 

Sohail:         What happened to your younger sister?

 

Shaheen:      She went back to live with our father and so our family was separated.

 

Sohail:         How was your stay with the nawab?

 

Shaheen:      He looked after us. By that time, I started going back and forth between the nawab's village and my own village where my father lived. I used to be the top student in the class. When I passed grade two, I went to my own village, passed grade three the same year and was promoted to grade four. I was again the top student. I went back and forth between two villages, passing two grades in one year. Finally when I reached grade ten I was not allowed to appear in the exam because I was too young. That's why I had to change my date of birth so that I would appear one year older. Those were very trying years and I had to teach in order to support myself.

 

Sohail:         In your school years were you a shy or an outgoing boy?

 

Shaheen:      I was very shy, very introverted. I didn't have the time or opportunity to mix with other children of my own age. I could not open up to them.

 

                   When I passed grade eleven it was a great occasion for rejoicing but I was worried about how I was going to continue my education in the college and university. One thing that sustained me in those trying years was my writing.

 

Sohail:         At what age did you start writing?

 

Shaheen:      At a very early age. Probably when I was nine. I was very much fascinated with poetry. The first book that I ever bought cost me three rupees, my entire fortune at that time; it was `Bal-e-Jibreel'.

 

Sohail:         How old were you then?

 

Shaheen:      Nearly twelve. I could hardly understand that book but it was fascinating to me. I memorized most of the poems.

 

                   Then there was a `qawaal' in our village. His one arm was cut off in 1946 by Hindus. Being a `qawaal' he had to play the harmonium. He was a wonderful `qawaal' but he was not an educated person. His memory was so sharp that he had hundreds and hundreds of `qawalis' memorized. He would pick up his harmonium, play it with one hand, and harp with one foot; it was magical. He was a good performer and was invited to perform by other villages. I must have been six or seven at that time and was well known in the village for being a bright young man even at that age. One day that `qawaal' came to my house and asked if I could write down all the `qawalis' for him. He wanted to keep them in one place. He was also worried that if he lost his memory he might lose all his `qawalis'. I agreed. So whenever I had spare time I would go to him. He would give me a big brown paper and a pen or an ink pot and a holder to write. He recited `qawalis' from his memory and I wrote them down for him as well as I could. I did that for a long time; once compiled, the collection became a large book. I was charmed by the words. I guess it is a minor event but when I look back I see that working with the `qawaal' was a good experience for me. I realized even then that words are very powerful, and I believe that words that are made into poetry are more powerful than words that are not poetry. For me, words contain poetry. The only problem is that when the words are not in proper sequence, they don't constitute poetry; however, each word has the potential of becoming poetic in its nature. This was the feeling I got at a very early age.

 

Sohail:         It must have been quite inspirational for you.

 

Shaheen:      Yes, it was. I also had good teachers in the Islamic School. I was taught by Shamim Ashraf who later on became author of many novels in India. He was a poet as well. He used to recite his own poetry during his lectures.

 

Sohail:         When you wrote poetry in school, did you share it with anyone?

 

Shaheen:      No, I didn't. I kept it to myself. It so happened that one time I saw a magazine by the name of `Bano' at a newspaper stand and bought it for ten annas. When I came home I found out that it was a women's magazine. I read the poetry and sent two of my poems to the editor with my name Syed Wali Alam Shaheen and the address of Moza Ghazipur Zilla Munger Bihar written at the bottom. Two months later my poem was published with my long name and address. It was a big surprise for me, to have something I had written published. Afterwards I received a letter from the editor stating that she liked the poem and wanted me to write one about Eid because she was bringing out a special Eid edition of the magazine. That was in 1952. I was really excited about that letter.

 

Sohail:         You must have been very encouraged.

 

Shaheen:      Yes, I was. I chose a topic for myself, "Yateem Ki Eid" (Eid of an orphan). It was something I was going through myself. I had lost my mother and stayed away from my father for a while. I wrote a full page poem and sent it to the magazine. It was then published. I've since lost that poem but I still remember the first few lines.

 

                   Then I bought another magazine entitled `Sohail' which was from Gaya and I sent them some of my ghazals which were also published too. I was happier seeing my poems in print that I was when I passed my matriculation exam with high marks.

 

Sohail:         Did you share your poetry with your family?

 

Shaheen:      No, I didn't. There was hardly anyone with whom to share my poetry. My younger sister was only eight. I mentioned it to my father but he didn't say much. One day I was travelling in a bus when I met an Urdu professor. He was a very knowledgeable person and taught in a college in some far-off town. I showed him the magazine in which my poem was published.

 

Sohail:         So you were carrying the magazine as a source of pride.

 

Shaheen:      That's true. I showed it to him proudly. He read the poem and asked me "Do you know `Taqtee'?" I thought he said "Do you know `Takhtee'?" So I said, "I wrote a lot of `Takhtee' when I was young. He said, "I am talking about Taqtee not Takhtee". I had never heard of that word before so I said no. He told me, "If you don't know `Taqtee' you can't write poetry". That was his final verdict and he gave the magazine back to me. I was very sad thinking I was not the type of person who should write poetry. But in the next few days I rejected that idea and started writing again and my poems kept on getting published. I thought if I could do without `Taqtee' I need not worry about it. Maybe I didn't need it.

 

                   Another incident happened when I was in the first year of college in Bhagulpur. I heard that there was a place in town called "Friend's Library" where the literary figures of the city got together and discussed their creative writings. I thought I should also go there, even though I was only fourteen at that time. After I attended two or three meetings somebody asked me if I had written anything. I said, "Yes, I write poetry" and I recited one of my poems. There was a guy who was a well known figure of that city in the crowd. He stood up and said, "Yeh nazm chori ki hay" (It is a stolen poem). It was an awkward situation. I told him my poetry is my own creation and that one of my poems had already been published but he didn't believe me. I insisted that I would bring the magazine in the next meeting to show it to everybody. Three days after that incident that guy came to my hostel and said, "I came to apologize. I saw your poem in the magazine with your name. I am very sorry for what I said." These are some of the early experiences that I remember.

 

Sohail:         What did you study in that college?

 

Shaheen:      I did my Bachelor of Science from the college and then Master of Science from the university. During those years I met some good teachers and professors and developed some taste and a sense of appreciation for literature.

 

Sohail:         You were mentioning that you were a shy boy in school. Were you also shy when you reached college and university?

 

Shaheen:      Yes, I was. For me it was always a question of survival. I had to work hard as a student to survive financially. I had to get up at 6 a.m., go and teach students till 10 a.m., then rush to college, walk again for three miles after 4 p.m. to teach more students and come home at 10 p.m. I hardly had any time for myself. I couldn't even afford my own textbooks. I was shy because I never interacted with people the way I should have. I ended up being an introvert. That trait has been with me for a long time.

 

Sohail:         Although you were interested in poetry, you pursued science in college. What was your ambition at that time?

 

Shaheen:      I took science because I was very good in maths from the very beginning. I always had perfect marks. Those days whoever was good in maths went into science. Even in the university I couldn't go to medical or engineering school because I couldn't support myself financially.

 

Sohail:         How old were you when you finished your Masters?

 

Shaheen:      Twenty. I was a lecturer at the age of twenty-one.

 

Sohail:         What did you teach?

 

Shaheen:      Statistics. I was the youngest lecturer at that time.

 

Sohail:         How did your life change after you started working?

 

Shaheen:      I was better off financially. At that time two hundred and thirty-five rupees was a large amount of money for me. I used to earn only twenty rupees a month by teaching three or four students.

 

                   One incident I should mention to you will show why writing was so important to me in those years. I used to send my poems here, there and everywhere. One summer I was very sick. All the students were gone and I was the only one left in the hostel because I had no where to go. I had a fever of 102^oF and no food to eat. I couldn't even move. Unexpectedly the postman arrived bringing  a money order of twenty-five rupees which was a big sum of money at that time. It was in 1955-56. It was for my poem. I had no money at that time - I couldn't even see the doctor or buy food. Those twenty-five rupees saved my life and gave me a big boost. Those were the days when I had to work the whole month to earn fifteen or twenty rupees, so to get twenty-five for my poems was a big amount. It really helped. I think that editors thought I was an established poet.

 

Sohail:         By that time had you talked about literary activities with your family?

 

Shaheen:      It was always in the background. My older brother was never with me. He was always leading a separate life. My father had passed away by that time. I was all alone.

 

Sohail:         You mentioned that you grew up in a religious family. Were you a religious person yourself?

 

Shaheen:      Yes, I was. I used to go to the mosque, read the Quran and observe fasts in Ramadan. However, I was not religious in a very strict sense. When I was with my father, he made sure that I did all the right things. As I grew older I couldn't understand it all. I had my doubts. I started questioning. I was religious in the sense that I followed religion as long as it did not contradict my logic. I didn't follow things that didn't make sense to me. Although I had limited logic still I listened to it. I always questioned things and that attitude was significant to me.

 

Sohail:         You were surrounded by Hindus as a child and saw all those tragedies. How do you think that affected your feelings as a Muslim?

 

Shaheen:      That is a very good question. Religion, fanaticism and prejudice affected me at a very early age. Not only had I lost my family but I was also affected at a very personal level. I will tell you a small incident to explain myself. One day I went to the river where Hindus used to come and gather water in their earthenware (ghara). There was a boy of my own age who was carrying a ghara. When I touched that ghara he started crying. That boy happened to be a Hindu and he knew that I was a Muslim. He cried and screamed, "A Muslim boy has touched my ghara". His mother came running and threw the ghara on the ground, broke it and then demanded money from me to replace it. I didn't have anything to give her. That kind of prejudice was further consolidated with other incidents in my life. We had to fight for equality.

 

Sohail:         When you were in the university, did you have non-Muslim friends?

 

Shaheen:      Yes, I did have some, but not many. I had some nice Bengali and Hindu friends from Bihar. I didn't have any problems with them but I had some difficulties at work. When I took a government job, I was sent for training in the field with 1500 other professionals. I was the only Muslim in the camp. At mealtimes they wouldn't give me a plate. They would serve me rice on leaves. There was even a separate glass for me. I told them I couldn't accept that. They didn't change their attitude so I quit and went back to the headquarters and told them that I was being discriminated against as a Muslim. I stayed in that job for only a few months. I spoke out for my beliefs and that was the main thing. There were some South Indian people from Madras and Benglore who supported me as well. They said that the discrimination based on religion was not acceptable in a secular society especially in an organization run by the government.

 

Sohail:         So you did get support from some of them.

 

Shaheen:      Yes, I did. But the collective opinion was against me.

 

Sohail:         I am curious - how did you come to Canada?

 

Shaheen:      It was an impulsive decision after the political upheaval in Bangladesh. I had been in Dacca since 1964 and later on I was offered a job in Karachi by the U.S. Agency for International Development. There was a project to do, a survey on human burns received from house fires and industrial and chemical burns. I had a staff of thirty people working under me. After that I was offered a good job in Islamabad as the Assistant Director. I was a senior class-one officer at the age of thirty-one.

                   What was disturbing was that I had to start my life from  scratch. It occurred to me that I should start my life in a place where I have never been before. I went to the U.S. Consulate. They were accepting only medical graduates at that time. Then I went to the Australian and Canada Embassies and was accepted by both. I didn't know anyone in Australia but I knew one person in Canada, Abrar, although I didn't know exactly where he was at that time. My sister-in-law's brother was also offered a job in Manitoba as a psychiatrist. So I decided to come to Canada. It was in 1973.

 

Sohail:         Let's talk about your family for a while. In what year did you get married?

 

Shaheen:      In 1956.

 

Sohail:         What were the circumstances?

 

Shaheen:      As I mentioned earlier I was living in a hostel all alone and I had no place to go. There used to be a tendency to get married at an early age in those years. A proposal was made that I should get married. I knew my wife and her family. I thought it was a good idea.

 

Sohail:         Were your families friends?

 

Shaheen:      We are related. My wife's father's sister was the first wife of my father, who died at a young age; then my father remarried, and I was the product of his second marriage.

 

Sohail:         Did your life change significantly after you married?

 

Shaheen:      Not really. I was very proud of the fact that I could support myself. I did not accept any kind of help from anyone. Some people wanted to help me but I refused. My wife was very dynamic and supportive. She started working while I was still a student. She became a teacher and then a headmistress of a primary school. She was eighteen or nineteen at that time.

 

Sohail:         Did you have children before you came to Canada?

 

Shaheen:      Yes, all four of them.

 

Sohail:         Did that change your life?

 

Shaheen:      Yes, it did. The initial years were difficult, but there was some breathing space between each child. After I finished my Masters and got a job I was okay. At that time we had a servant who helped us with the children.

 

Sohail:         Was your family life traditional? Did you look after the business outside the home and your wife look after the household responsibilities?

 

Shaheen:      Not really. My wife was never at home. From the very beginning she was very outgoing. She did her B.A. and taught in Dacca. Then she did her M.A. in Urdu and became a headmistress in a school. She was working twelve hours a day, holding down two jobs and also trying to study.

 

Sohail:         How involved were you in taking care of the children?

 

Shaheen:      I was as involved as fathers get involved in India and Pakistan. I taught them, spent time with them and shared the responsibilities with my wife. I think when children are small, mothers play a bigger role and when they grow older fathers play a major role.

 

Sohail:         Let's come back to your writing career. When was your first book published?

 

Shaheen:      In 1966 in Dacca. There were hardly any Urdu books published in Dacca in those days. It was the first book published on photo offset. It was a big thing at that time. Its name was "Rag-e-Saz". It was very well received in East and West Pakistan.

 

Sohail:         Was it your own decision or did someone suggest it to you?

 

Shaheen:      I didn't want to get my book published at that time but my friend Shahzad Manzar suggested that I should. He used to work for the Pakistan Observer and later on for the Urdu daily newspaper "Watan" and the weekly newspaper "Chitrali" on films. He arranged the publication. I gave him the selection of poems and lost the rest. I had also written some film songs which I lost. After the book was published, it was imported into West Pakistan by Ferozsons. The U.S. Congress library ordered seventy-five copies of the book because of the favourable reviews it received from the press.

 

Sohail:         Were you as excited by the publication of your first book as you were about your first poem?

 

Shaheen:      No. By that time I was used to seeing my poems in print. They were already being published in magazines like "Shahrah", "Ajkal" and "Mah-e-nau".

 

Sohail:         Were you involved in any of the literary movements of India and Pakistan?